Comments on: Apologies

By: Francisco Aragón

Francisco Aragón — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:32:01 +0000

Dear Ms. Miranda:
I’m so delighted to hear see your voice added to this chorus. I wasn’t going to add any more to this, but your contribution, which I appreciate and take to heart, has prompted me to share that I had sent Emily Warn a message, which I had asked her to pass on to Mr. Goldsmith in private in which I wanted him to know that I never doubted his apology and that my intent was not to “elevate” anything.
I chose my words clumsily. What I had tried to convey (and failed) was that had he chosen another word (”acknowledge” or “lament” or “regret” )–a word that fell short of an outright apology–that would have been enough for me. As it is, he graciously apologized and I failed at acknowledging that apology in unambiguous terms.
I agree: bitterness is not graceful. I will make every effort to remain mindful and remember people such as your granddaughter as I carry out my work
on behalf of our community. Thank you for your grace in bringing me gently to task.
Saludos,
Francisco

By: D. Violeta Miranda

D. Violeta Miranda — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 05:44:38 +0000

Mr. Goldsmith–
If Mr. Aragon wants to remain willfully indignant, than let him be free to do so. I have no doubt that Mr. Aragon, being himself a human being and therefore inclined to fallability, has many occasions of misstatement/atonement in his life experience, and has many ahead of him, as do we all (academic degrees not withstanding). His lack of grace with respect to your regret (”Whether one calls Kenneth’s post an ‘apology’ or not”) strikes me as serving a private need of his rather than a desire to further the aims of the underlying discussion. The Latina/o community has earned our right to expect greater awareness and artistic access with respect to our language, culture, and point of view (varied as it is). Mr. Goldsmith, you have already issued forth your pound of flesh. You owe no further apologies in the humble opinion of this Latina. I would hope, however, the dialogue spawned continues unabated– with requisite good will and grace.
Mr. Aragon–
Bitterness is not graceful, Mr. Aragon. And you can pretend to your younger counterparts that this was not your intent, but I’m a wizened woman and your emotional subtext was evident. You do our community, and writers like my granddaughter, no service when you so indulge yourself. There’s too much at stake for us to tolerate your lack of largesse.

By: Rich Villar

Rich Villar — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:29:22 +0000

You have quite the popular little forum going here, Mr. Goldsmith. Above the fold, indeed. I still take your apology seriously, still appreciate your comments, and I would ask you to take note of what is going to be said here, not as an indirect attack, but as part of a continuing conversation.
To InfinitelyAbsurd:
Even though I grew up in the age of the AOL chatroom and MiGente.com, I wish I knew who you were. (I doubt very much that your mama named you “Infinitely.”) I actually saw Mr. Goldsmith in person at a CCNY forum, and I know most of the posters on here personally in varying degrees, so I’m really digging this exchange. With you, I very much feel like I’m speaking into the ether, but that’s life in the big city. Still, if you’re inclined to identify yourself more concretely to the commenters, I’d truly appreciate it.
To the ether, thus: I couldn’t disagree with you more about cultural imperialism and the United States. No hegemon practices such a thing as soft power. The very fact that I speak Spanish, and not the languages of the native peoples of Puerto Rico or Cuba, recalls a very bloody victory by a very determined empire. And the fact that the United States can send writers and artists (not to mention diplomats and other policymakers) into non-English speaking parts of the world and demand that their audiences pay rapt English attention to them is a direct result of the post-World War II, post-colonialist, post-Cold War Pax Americana, heartily enforced by the robust U.S. military presence you mention. It surely didn’t happen because we sent blue jeans to Moscow.
No, the United States didn’t invade France (unless you count Nazi-occupied France), but they DID invade Puerto Rico, a nation whose people, language, and literature is daily influenced and nuanced by the ever-present influence of its U.S. arch-government. They also invaded Mexico, a direct result of which was the shifting of cultural borders (and the resultant literature) of the Southwest. They have also intervened, both militarily and covertly, with the politics of other nations of Latin America, backgrounds against which writers from Latin America have been working for decades. I understand that neither you nor Mr. Goldsmith intended to stir up politics and cultural commentary with a silly post about multilingualism and misunderstanding, but this is the boat that Latino/a writers have been sailing in since the turn of the century. So when you ask someone to give context to someone else’s statements, I will ask you to remember the contexts and histories under which some of your fellow Americans live and write. I am not particularly interested in bashing people over the head with a civics lesson, but I am most definitely interested in getting people—writers, especially, because writers facilitate memory— to dialogue about the important issues that go unnoticed.
To Mr. Shoup:
Context, indeed. You ask Francisco to cut Kenneth some slack and give a man some context, but well, we simply didn’t have any context to read into, other than what was printed before us. I, for one, accepted his apology, because it included an explanation that was previously absent. You said,
So, if Mr. Goldsmith had placed just one adjective (”Like many of my countrymen…”) very little stir would have come from this post.”
Um, yes, actually! If he’d said “many,” perhaps some of the hornets’ nest would be undisturbed. But he didn’t. And while we accept his subsequent explanation, we are still writers…poets, in fact. We know that words mean things, sometimes maddeningly concrete things. Other than oracles, weaponry, and aggressive hand gestures, words are all we have to divine meaning from sound. If we can’t take another person to task for his/her words, then conversations become meaningless.
As to your note about the Spanish language becoming prevalent in U.S. letters…that would sure be nice. We’ll see.

By: J. Bryan Shoup

J. Bryan Shoup — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:40:33 +0000

Mr. Aragón,
It was quite obvious that Mr. Goldsmith’s first statement (that Americans speak one language) was ill-made and incorrect. I think Mr. Goldsmith should have thought twice before writing that, and I’m confident if someone had proofread it for him the error would have been pointed out quickly, and Goldsmith would have smacked his forehead and gone “Oh, whoops, many Americans of many backgrounds are indeed multilingual.”
But Mr. Aragón, it’s astounding how you continute to read into his brief joke about his own poor Spanish to assume that he was saying all Spanish-speakers are illiterate. He himself said in the original post that Spanish was a language he hadn’t spoken and hadn’t written fluently, so it logically follows that the next sentence is a joke about how poor his Spanish is. It’s so poor, he asserted, it’s incomprehensible to everyone who encounters it. Spanish may not be my first language, but I read the original post and I picked up on the joke – even while being perturbed by his comment about Americans being monolingual.
So, if Mr. Goldsmith had placed just one adjective (”Like many of my countrymen…”) very little stir would have come from this post. And some of the stir that is swirling is undeserved.
However, I do think there should be a poet or poets entering Harriet posts in Spanish. It’s the second most common language in these United States, and not only would regular contributions to Harriet in Spanish (sure, with translations nearby) reflect that reality and edify English-only readers, it would also help Poetry connect to a growing base of support for American poetry.
If the trend continues and Spanish becomes more and more prevalent in our society, doesn’t it seem to follow that it will become a very visible medium for American poetry, and as such should be anticipated now by a leading poetry organization such as this?

By: infinitelyabsurd

infinitelyabsurd — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:48:30 +0000

FA,
I think that’s the least generous reading of Mr.Goldsmith’s comments–it willfully ignores intent.
“Probably no one understands a single word of what I am saying [in the case
here: reading (literate)], even if Spanish were their first language.”
And why would that be? Not because he assumes no native Spanish speakers would be literate but because he isn’t speaking proper Spanish, so it’s mutually unintelligeble.
Can a man get some context?

By: Kenneth Goldsmith

Kenneth Goldsmith — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:49:16 +0000

Francisco said:
Whether one calls Kenneth’s post an “apology” or not is beside the point.
Please, Francisco, there’s no need to escalate this. This is a genuine apology to you and the offended community. To take it to another level and to question my sincerity would only set our evolving (and constructive) discourse back. And I think that’s something no one wants.
Onward and upward, amigo!
Kenneth

By: Francisco Aragón

Francisco Aragón — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:05:01 +0000

HERE’S HOW:
Soy un poeta estadounidense, y como el resto de mis compatriotas, hablo sólo un idioma.
I am a citizen of the United States, and like the rest of my fellow citizens, I only speak one language.
Assumption: All citizens of the US are monolingual (speak for yourself, bud)
***
Lo más probable es que nadie entienda una sola palabra de lo que digo, ni siquiera si el español es su primera lengua.
Probably no one understands a single word of what I am saying [in the case
here: reading (literate)], even if Spanish were their first language
Assumption:
someone who whose first language is Spanish can’t read written Spanish [all I have to go on is what I am reading and this is what the post is saying]
***
But it’s really all a moot point, because Kenneth already said, and eloquently so: this piece was meant to be uttered aloud in what we presume would be his unintelligible Spanish.
FA

By: Emily Warn

Emily Warn — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:03:34 +0000

In answer to Francisco Aragon’s question–
Claro Que Sí
Emily

By: infinitelyabsurd

infinitelyabsurd — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:45:46 +0000

FA,
How do either of these assumptions follow:
“1. assumed that most people whose first language is Spanish are illiterate
2. all citizens of the US are monolingual (thereby rendering invisible our Spanish-speaking and Spanish-understanding citizenry).”
For the post to work he’d have to rely on someone reading Spanish and saying “Hey, this guy doesn’t speak Spanish very well. Oh wait, I get it,” or else wait for the next post where Mr.Goldsmith explained it. If he goes around giving this speech in different languages, in front of non-English speaking audiences, then the assumption seems to be that his audience speaks the language he does not.
And why choose Spanish if the assumption is that the US is monolingual? Mr.Goldsmith doesn’t read the papers, has no sense of the history of recent immigration or demographic trends in the US and has never been to the American south-west, west coast, or any major city on the east coast? Those are some pretty large assumptions.
I’ll agree that would “require a remarkable dose of ignorance and obliviousness” if by “remarkable” you mean “nearly impossible”.

By: Francisco Aragón

Francisco Aragón — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:00:01 +0000

Whether one calls Kenneth’s post an “apology” or not is beside the point. The important matter (and maybe I’m only speaking for myself here) is that he has acknowledged (discovered) that there are people who read this site (in this case, people who read and understand Spanish, which is perhaps what he wasn’t counting on since in order for his post to have “worked” required that no-one in the audience understand a word of Spanish) who were offended. As I said in my first response, I understood what he was attempting to do, but his choice of Spanish–at this particular juncture of our history, with the evolving demographics, the immigration debate, etc—demonstrated that the post, as it was worded:
1. assumed that most people whose first language is Spanish are illiterate
2. all citizens of the US are monolingual (thereby rendering invisible our Spanish-speaking and Spanish-understanding citizenry).
In short, it made assumptions that—in order for them to be made—require a remarkable dose of ignorance and obliviousness about the country we currently live in.
I can imagine someone thinking: yeah, that may be so, but THOSE people don’t read the blog at the Poetry Foundation so big deal.
The one good thing to come from Kenneth’s post (and I’m thinking especially of the woman in South Carolina), is that there ARE spanish readers who read this blog.
And so the question for Emily Warn is: will she consider adding someone to the blogger team who would be capable of, on occasion, posting in Spanish. If the goal is to “expand” the audience, well….
But already I hear the detractors:
What’s next: bloggers in French, etc etc !
FA