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	<title>Comments on: the vispo challenge</title>
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	<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/</link>
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		<title>By: C Mehrl Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1614</link>
		<dc:creator>C Mehrl Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1614</guid>
		<description>www.flickr.com/photos/cmehrlbennett
for my own visual poetry, visual poetry collaborations, and a set of kimonos (collaborations); many of which I made for/with visual poets I&#039;m familiar with.
My recent book of visual poetry is available at
www.lulu.com/lunabisonteprods
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmehrlbennett" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmehrlbennett</a><br />
for my own visual poetry, visual poetry collaborations, and a set of kimonos (collaborations); many of which I made for/with visual poets I&#8217;m familiar with.<br />
My recent book of visual poetry is available at<br />
<a href="http://www.lulu.com/lunabisonteprods" rel="nofollow">http://www.lulu.com/lunabisonteprods</a><br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1614"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1614 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: karl kempton</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1613</link>
		<dc:creator>karl kempton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1613</guid>
		<description>the inernaitonal visual poetry KALDRON on-line site open snce 1996
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&amp;d/kaldron.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&amp;d/kaldron.htm&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the inernaitonal visual poetry KALDRON on-line site open snce 1996<br />
<a href="http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&#038;d/kaldron.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&#038;d/kaldron.htm</a><br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1613"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1613 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Bob Grumman</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1612</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Grumman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1612</guid>
		<description>Meant to comment before this to second what David Chirot said and note that I discuss visual poetry often at &lt;a href=&quot;http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html.&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html.&lt;/a&gt;  Also at my blog are two galleries devoted to specimens of my own mathematical poetry, a kind of poetry which is to visual poetry so far as recognition goes as visual poetry is to language poetry, and language poetry to mainstream poetry.
I&#039;m not sure what to say about Silliman&#039;s take on visual poetry.  I don&#039;t think he knows much about it.  Blake is certainly not a visual poet, but an illustrator of conventional poems.  Nice to have Silliman sort of on my side, though.
I would add that Stephen Burt is wrong to characterize Cummings&#039;s visiopoetic work as limited to &quot;unusual layout&quot;.  (And, yes, it is &quot;Cummings,&quot; not &quot;cummings,&quot; the Madison Avenue misspelling.)
As for what visual poetry is, that&#039;s a contentious question.  I say it&#039;s poetry whose verbal and visual elements are approximately of equal aesthetic value.  To make a sound bite of it.  Who knows what visual poems work best on the web, or anywhere,  But &lt;i&gt;Writing To Be Seen&lt;/i&gt;, an anthology of visio-textual art I and Crag Hill edited, has many good specimens of them.  Most visual poets would agree with me that visual poetry derives from Mallarme and Apollinaire through Cummings, but many do not, wanting to find a more ancient, non-Western lineage for it.  Certainly, &lt;i&gt;modern&lt;/i&gt; visual poetry derives from Mallarme and Apollinaire.  I claim that haiku is also an important ancestor, via minimalist poetry, of contemporary  visual poetry.
I tend to think the relation of most current visual poets to the practitioners of other sorts of poetry is small (with the exception of language poetry, which is also innovative and sometimes has visual elements), but some--I, for one--have deep roots in the Western poetry tradition.  But most visual poets also compose conventional poems.   &quot;Does it make any more, or any less sense, to use the term &quot;visual poetry&quot; for something made as much of images as of words as to use the more familiar term &#039;telenovela&#039;?&quot;  Yikes, the term, &quot;visual poetry&quot; has been around for decades and is much more familiar to me than &quot;telenovela,&quot; which I never heard of before.  Surely, it must have to do with prose fiction?  It certainly doesn&#039;t sound like it has any more to do with visual poetry than the term, &quot;novel,&quot; has to do with what I call &quot;solitextual&quot; (for solely textual) poetry.
--Bob Grumman
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meant to comment before this to second what David Chirot said and note that I discuss visual poetry often at <a href="http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html." rel="nofollow">http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html.</a>  Also at my blog are two galleries devoted to specimens of my own mathematical poetry, a kind of poetry which is to visual poetry so far as recognition goes as visual poetry is to language poetry, and language poetry to mainstream poetry.<br />
I&#8217;m not sure what to say about Silliman&#8217;s take on visual poetry.  I don&#8217;t think he knows much about it.  Blake is certainly not a visual poet, but an illustrator of conventional poems.  Nice to have Silliman sort of on my side, though.<br />
I would add that Stephen Burt is wrong to characterize Cummings&#8217;s visiopoetic work as limited to &#8220;unusual layout&#8221;.  (And, yes, it is &#8220;Cummings,&#8221; not &#8220;cummings,&#8221; the Madison Avenue misspelling.)<br />
As for what visual poetry is, that&#8217;s a contentious question.  I say it&#8217;s poetry whose verbal and visual elements are approximately of equal aesthetic value.  To make a sound bite of it.  Who knows what visual poems work best on the web, or anywhere,  But <i>Writing To Be Seen</i>, an anthology of visio-textual art I and Crag Hill edited, has many good specimens of them.  Most visual poets would agree with me that visual poetry derives from Mallarme and Apollinaire through Cummings, but many do not, wanting to find a more ancient, non-Western lineage for it.  Certainly, <i>modern</i> visual poetry derives from Mallarme and Apollinaire.  I claim that haiku is also an important ancestor, via minimalist poetry, of contemporary  visual poetry.<br />
I tend to think the relation of most current visual poets to the practitioners of other sorts of poetry is small (with the exception of language poetry, which is also innovative and sometimes has visual elements), but some&#8211;I, for one&#8211;have deep roots in the Western poetry tradition.  But most visual poets also compose conventional poems.   &#8220;Does it make any more, or any less sense, to use the term &#8220;visual poetry&#8221; for something made as much of images as of words as to use the more familiar term &#8216;telenovela&#8217;?&#8221;  Yikes, the term, &#8220;visual poetry&#8221; has been around for decades and is much more familiar to me than &#8220;telenovela,&#8221; which I never heard of before.  Surely, it must have to do with prose fiction?  It certainly doesn&#8217;t sound like it has any more to do with visual poetry than the term, &#8220;novel,&#8221; has to do with what I call &#8220;solitextual&#8221; (for solely textual) poetry.<br />
&#8211;Bob Grumman<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1612"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1612 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Don Share</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Share</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>Oh, and of course: &lt;a href=&quot;http://vispo.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;vispo.com&lt;/a&gt;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and of course: <a href="http://vispo.com/" rel="nofollow">vispo.com</a>.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1611"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1611 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Don Share</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1610</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Share</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1610</guid>
		<description>Folks interested in vispo might also check out the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rediscov.com/sacknerarchives/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sackner Archives&lt;/a&gt;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks interested in vispo might also check out the <a href="http://www.rediscov.com/sacknerarchives/" rel="nofollow">Sackner Archives</a>.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1610"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1610 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: david baptiste chirot</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1609</link>
		<dc:creator>david baptiste chirot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1609</guid>
		<description>There are a great many  visual poetry blogs in several languages and a great many web sites.  I have a blog which presents a wide variety of works and also have a Mail Art/Visual Poetry exhibition running at it, and starting a new one this week--if you look at the links i have you&#039;ll find lot of great blogs and web sites both--which in turn have further linkes from all over the world.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a great many  visual poetry blogs in several languages and a great many web sites.  I have a blog which presents a wide variety of works and also have a Mail Art/Visual Poetry exhibition running at it, and starting a new one this week&#8211;if you look at the links i have you&#8217;ll find lot of great blogs and web sites both&#8211;which in turn have further linkes from all over the world.<br />
<a href="http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com</a><br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1609"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1609 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Tricia</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1608</link>
		<dc:creator>Tricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1608</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Shanna! In the course of my searching I also found &lt;a href=&quot;http://kickknees.wordpress.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;kickknees&lt;/a&gt;, which features a chubby vispo blogroll.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Shanna! In the course of my searching I also found <a href="http://kickknees.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">kickknees</a>, which features a chubby vispo blogroll.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1608"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1608 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: shanna</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1607</link>
		<dc:creator>shanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1607</guid>
		<description>tricia, definitely check out geof huth&#039;s blog &lt;a href=&quot;http://dbqp.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; if you haven&#039;t!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tricia, definitely check out geof huth&#8217;s blog <a href="http://dbqp.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">here</a> if you haven&#8217;t!<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1607"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1607 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Tricia</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/11/the-vispo-challenge/#comment-1606</link>
		<dc:creator>Tricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pf/harriet/?p=505#comment-1606</guid>
		<description>Relatedly, I&#039;ve often wondered why there are so relatively few vispo blogs out there. Art blogs flourish, comics blogs flourish, and poetry blogs certainly flourish, so where is all the vispo? Then again, perhaps my yellow-belt google-fu is to blame--if there are tons of fantastic vispo blogs floating around that have escaped my attention, please post links!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relatedly, I&#8217;ve often wondered why there are so relatively few vispo blogs out there. Art blogs flourish, comics blogs flourish, and poetry blogs certainly flourish, so where is all the vispo? Then again, perhaps my yellow-belt google-fu is to blame&#8211;if there are tons of fantastic vispo blogs floating around that have escaped my attention, please post links!<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_1606"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 1606 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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