Comments on: Mother Goose is a Goth: A Found Poem http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/ A blog from the Poetry Foundation where contemporary poets debate classic and contemporary poetry from America and around the world. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:12:24 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Daisy http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3534 Daisy Wed, 14 May 2008 12:23:14 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3534 Jonathan--Are you the Philadelphia (former?) dance critic/poet? If so, I think we were on a panel together once, but I forget what it was on--it was a looooong time ago. Best, Daisy Jonathan–Are you the Philadelphia (former?) dance critic/poet? If so, I think we were on a panel together once, but I forget what it was on–it was a looooong time ago. Best, Daisy

]]> By: Vonnie http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3533 Vonnie Wed, 07 May 2008 02:56:20 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3533 Anonymous poem: "The Little Turtle" I believe this poem/rhyme belongs to poet Vachel Lindsay [1879-1931] published in 1923. Prior to the poem yjese words are written: "A Recitation for Martha Wakefield, Three Years Old" Regards, Vonnie Anonymous poem: “The Little Turtle” I believe this poem/rhyme belongs to poet Vachel Lindsay [1879-1931] published in 1923. Prior to the poem yjese words are written:
“A Recitation for Martha Wakefield, Three Years Old”
Regards, Vonnie

]]> By: Matt http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3532 Matt Tue, 06 May 2008 03:04:15 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3532 Death by shrivelling? Somehow that seems like the worst way to go. Death by shrivelling? Somehow that seems like the worst way to go.

]]> By: Troy Camplin, Ph.D. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3531 Troy Camplin, Ph.D. Mon, 05 May 2008 19:51:04 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3531 Unfortunately, people have been trying to sanitize children's stories and fairy tales for year -- typically by people who miss the point of the tales. Political correctness has run amuck in this area for a long time, first among conservatives, and now among the Left (with PC). I've read Mother Goose that was turned into Christian propaganda (thus sanitizing it and, ironically, eliminating the morals of the stories) and politically correct versions of fairy tales which essentially do the same thing. I have been told by German friends that the Grimm's Fairy Tales we have are both made incomplete and sanitized by the translators (one story I have yet to find by them is the one about the girl told not to play with matches, and when she does, she burns herself and her house up). Fairy tales are intended to educate. And, yes, fear does educate (why else would you go to watch horror movies or get on a roller coaster?). Unfortunately, people have been trying to sanitize children’s stories and fairy tales for year — typically by people who miss the point of the tales. Political correctness has run amuck in this area for a long time, first among conservatives, and now among the Left (with PC). I’ve read Mother Goose that was turned into Christian propaganda (thus sanitizing it and, ironically, eliminating the morals of the stories) and politically correct versions of fairy tales which essentially do the same thing. I have been told by German friends that the Grimm’s Fairy Tales we have are both made incomplete and sanitized by the translators (one story I have yet to find by them is the one about the girl told not to play with matches, and when she does, she burns herself and her house up). Fairy tales are intended to educate. And, yes, fear does educate (why else would you go to watch horror movies or get on a roller coaster?).

]]> By: Jonathan David Jackson http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3530 Jonathan David Jackson Mon, 05 May 2008 11:28:41 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3530 Another excellent post from a consistently captivating writer. Geoffrey Handley-Taylor's statistical overview laid me out in the floor with laughter. Rather than policing fantasies, and in addition to the usual subjects, might we improve our educational system by developing curriculum in the following modest subjects from grade K through the end of middle school:<ul><li><i>Conflict resolution</i> (because learning how to make peace, forge acceptance, and work across differences should bloom at the root of personhood) <li><i>Anatomy and physiology</i> (because the more we know about our bodies' systemization, the more we may care about our own and other's physicality and health) <li><i>Nutrition</i> (because how we nourish the body and feed ourselves is directly related to the way we view and treat others and ourselves) <li><i>Somatics, massage, yoga, and other avenues towards healthy touch and bodily awareness</i> (because <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4093/is_200310/ai_n9284163" rel="nofollow">kinesthesia</a> is the least most developed sense) </li></li></li></li></ul> Have a beautiful day. Another excellent post from a consistently captivating writer. Geoffrey Handley-Taylor’s statistical overview laid me out in the floor with laughter.
Rather than policing fantasies, and in addition to the usual subjects, might we improve our educational system by developing curriculum in the following modest subjects from grade K through the end of middle school:
  • Conflict resolution (because learning how to make peace, forge acceptance, and work across differences should bloom at the root of personhood)
  • Anatomy and physiology (because the more we know about our bodies’ systemization, the more we may care about our own and other’s physicality and health)
  • Nutrition (because how we nourish the body and feed ourselves is directly related to the way we view and treat others and ourselves)
  • Somatics, massage, yoga, and other avenues towards healthy touch and bodily awareness (because kinesthesia is the least most developed sense)

Have a beautiful day.

]]> By: john http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3529 john Mon, 05 May 2008 05:07:30 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3529 Inexplicably missing from the Baring-Gould; I found it in 2 other collections as an adult: A man of words and not of deeds Is like a garden full of weeds, And when the weeds begin to grow It's like a garden full of snow, And when the snow begins to fall It's like a bird upon the wall, And when the bird away does fly It's like a shipwreck in the sky, And when the sky begins to roar It's like a lion at your door, And when your door begins to crack It's like a stick across your back, And when your back begins to smart It's like a penknife in your heart, And when your heart begins to bleed Your dead, and dead, and dead -- indeed. Inexplicably missing from the Baring-Gould; I found it in 2 other collections as an adult:
A man of words and not of deeds
Is like a garden full of weeds,
And when the weeds begin to grow
It’s like a garden full of snow,
And when the snow begins to fall
It’s like a bird upon the wall,
And when the bird away does fly
It’s like a shipwreck in the sky,
And when the sky begins to roar
It’s like a lion at your door,
And when your door begins to crack
It’s like a stick across your back,
And when your back begins to smart
It’s like a penknife in your heart,
And when your heart begins to bleed
Your dead, and dead, and dead — indeed.

]]> By: Jeannine Hall Gailey http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/05/mother-goose-is-a-goth-a-found-poem/#comment-3528 Jeannine Hall Gailey Mon, 05 May 2008 01:30:45 +0000 http://pf/harriet/?p=816#comment-3528 Dear Daisy, Thanks for this post! I do think that fairy tales partially act as a way for children, especially female children, to think through and deal with the violences and dangers of the world. I know I loved my Andrew Lang "Fairy Books" - Crimson, Olive, etc - as a kid way more than all the safe/grimly positive "children's books" from the seventies. It was a revelation when I went to college that even those stories had been sanitized for children, and when I read some of the original versions of the stories ("Little Red Cap" being one of the more disturbing) well, they made a lot more sense. "My Brother is Being Arrested Again" is a book I keep recommending to friends. Best, Jeannine Dear Daisy,
Thanks for this post! I do think that fairy tales partially act as a way for children, especially female children, to think through and deal with the violences and dangers of the world. I know I loved my Andrew Lang “Fairy Books” – Crimson, Olive, etc – as a kid way more than all the safe/grimly positive “children’s books” from the seventies.
It was a revelation when I went to college that even those stories had been sanitized for children, and when I read some of the original versions of the stories (”Little Red Cap” being one of the more disturbing) well, they made a lot more sense.
“My Brother is Being Arrested Again” is a book I keep recommending to friends.
Best,
Jeannine

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