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	<title>Comments on: Muse-Goddess</title>
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	<description>A blog from the Poetry Foundation where contemporary poets debate classic and contemporary poetry from America and around the world.</description>
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		<title>By: Gail White</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-16121</link>
		<dc:creator>Gail White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-16121</guid>
		<description>I do believe that we all have, as Socrates did, our &quot;little voices&quot; or daimons.  Mine happens to be
cynical, most of the time.  

A prophet once remarked that the wind blows where it will and you hear the sound, but can&#039;t tell where it comes from or where it goes...  And so is everyone who is born of the wind.  

Poets are born of the wind, I think.  

Enjoyed the blog, Annie!  See you back at Wom-Po.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe that we all have, as Socrates did, our &#8220;little voices&#8221; or daimons.  Mine happens to be<br />
cynical, most of the time.  </p>
<p>A prophet once remarked that the wind blows where it will and you hear the sound, but can&#8217;t tell where it comes from or where it goes&#8230;  And so is everyone who is born of the wind.  </p>
<p>Poets are born of the wind, I think.  </p>
<p>Enjoyed the blog, Annie!  See you back at Wom-Po.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Desmond Swords</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15890</link>
		<dc:creator>Desmond Swords</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15890</guid>
		<description>ANTI-POETS: SCROLL PAST. SERIOUS IRISH MYTHOLOGICAL MUSE THE FRUITS OF 8 YEARS STUDY - FREE TO READ HERE NOW WOW INNIT FAB !!

Larkin my arse, but what a way to go, collapsing in the bog with your gob pressed against the hot pipes and then your last words to one of the three women you&#039;re juggling, *shred the diaries.*

~

Before i go onto the Muse proper, i feel a need to give the full background to it, in the tradition i centre my theatrics in, otherwise the full of it is lost and i cannot honestly proceed gettiong on the wick of others.

~

What is the Muse but Memory of a great tradition, Finnegas and Finn McCool speaking what&#039;s what vis a vis poetry per se, as in the meaning of *éces* - which the modern Irish word for poetry, éigse* routes to.

Éces is an Old Irish word which the word *poetry* as we understand it today doesn&#039;t really capture. In the most basic of sense it means the nuts and bolts of knowledge. 

~ 

Mnemosyne, the original Greek muse, the etymology rooting to house of moon, its essential meaning: Memory.

Her pool in Hades was the opposite of Lethe, which was the pool/river of forgetfulness the dead drank from so they would not remember their past life when being re-incarnated.

The Orphic Mystery rites had initiates drink from Mnemosyne&#039;s pool so they would acquire omniscience and instead of being re-born, go onto the Elysian Fields, which Hesiod in Works and Days refers to as the Isles of the Blessed, far to the west and which in Celtic Mythology are Tír na nÓg, (land of the ever young) the most popular of several Celtic otherworlds in which all is fab - another one called the Isle of Happy is where happiness is found, similar to Avalon.

The poetic Tradition of Gaelic poetry, is called *on coimgne* - which Kuno Meyer translated as *historical knowlege*. Meyer was an early 20C Celticist who, along with Rudolph Thurneyson, Osborn Bergin, D.A. Binchy (uncle of Maeve) and others, first translated Gaelic manuscript and were part of the Dublin milleau of Yeats and his cronies.

On Coimgne breaks down into 350 tales, 250 primary and 100 secondary. Secondary ones were never written down and only learned from grade four cano (whelp) up to seven ollamh (poetry professor), passed from lip to ear.

A list of 187 primary tales in 16 genres appear on folio 189b of the 12C Book of Leinster: Do nemthigud filed, a translation of which is here &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/poet_qualifications.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Of the Qualifications of a Poet&lt;/a&gt;.

Destructions (9), and Preyings (11), and Courtships (14), and Battles (9), and Caves (11), and Navigations (7), and Tragedies (13), and Feats (17) and Sieges (9) and Adventures (14) and Elopements (12) and Massacres (38) and Eruptions (2) and Visions (7) and Expeditions (4), and Marches (13). 

The maxim following this primer reads: &lt;em&gt;&quot;(s)he is no poet who does not synchronize and harmonize on coimgne&quot; the great knowledge.&lt;/em&gt;

~

Which brings us to the Muse in Gaelic poetry.

The otherworldly omphalos, the wet muse of Irish myth, is known by a variety of names: the Well of Segais, Sidhe Nechtan and Connla&#039;s Well.

The mythology surrounding the well states it is a still-pool source of the Boyne river, and informs us how only Nechtan and his three cupbearers were allowed in the vicinity of the well, to perform magical rites, walking round it clockwise and no doubt muttering holy mumbo jumbo to invoke a supreme intelligence they hoped would deal favourably with their wants and wishes. 

One day Nechtan&#039;s wife Boand (who gave her name to the river Boyne) broke the taboo or *geisa* of not going near the well, and walked round it counter-clockwise, causing it to erupt in fury and bring the river Boyne into being, whilst scattering Boand&#039;s limb and body parts in places whose toponyms etymologically route to her name and are recorded in another body of lore the poet need learn to qualify, the Dindsenchas.

The dindsenchas are 176 poems and prose commentaries which recount how places got their name. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T106500C/text002.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;23 stanza poem of the dindsenchas&lt;/a&gt; which tells how the Boyne got hers, is at the link.

~ 

The well is surrounded by nine hazel trees, and each nut contains total poetic wisdom, and these nuts are known as *the nuts of knowledge* -- cnó coill hEolas which (according the Cauldron of Poesy: 

&lt;em&gt;&quot;...cast themselves in great quantities like a ram&#039;s fleece upon the ridges of the Boyne, moving against the stream swifter than racehorses driven in the middle-month on the magnificent day every seven years.&lt;/em&gt;

~

Unlike the fruit on the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden, there is no sense of the forbidden about them, (indeed they are greatly prized if highly elusive) and the short-cut way to get instantly cleverer than one&#039;s rivals and dispense with the 12 difficult years of hard graft in the bardic curriculum, is to catch a Salmon of Knowledge who has fed on the nuts in the well and eat it, thereby ingesting the full of poetic wisdom seciond hand. The earliest name for the Salmon of wisodm/knowledge is eo fis and the modern name is bradán feasa.

A Fionn mac Cumhaill (Finn son of Cumhaill) tale encapsulates this poetic of getting it all at once by eating the Salmon of Knowledge, which appears in the body of lore known as The Boyood Deeds of Finn McCool, found in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenian_Cycle&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fenian Cycle&lt;/a&gt; of Irish myth and which there is some debate as to the era the tales where set in, but in the centuries around the time of Christ, and these started getting written down in the 7C.

There are four cycles in Irish myth, the other three being: 

2 - &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythological_Cycle&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mythological Cycle&lt;/a&gt; - detailing the pagan invasion mythology and featuring a cast
 from six races of gods who fight amongst themselves for control of the island.

3 - &lt;a&gt;Historical Cycle&lt;/a&gt; - cycle of kings detailing tales of legendary kings

4 - &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Cycle&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ulster Cycle&lt;/a&gt; set ion the time of king Conchobar mac Nessa, in the time Pliny was writing around the time of Christ and detailing the adventures and battles of of the Uliad and their hero Cúchulainn, with ther rivals in Connacht, led by Maeve and the prime tale being Táin Bó Cúailnge - cattle raid of Cooley.

~

Finn McCool is the name of a person whose birth-name was Demne: (finn means *fair, bright, shining* and with a positive charge on fair) a poet-warrior who was the last chief of the fianna in Irish mythology. The fianna were independant aristocratic bands of young men who lived outside of society and were called upon by various petty kings in times of war to fight their battles amongst themselves, and who went raiding across the sea for thralls and spoil. 

Finn&#039;s father Cumhaill, was also a chief of the fianna, killed by his rival for the leadership, Goll mac Morna (goll meaning one eyed, which came about his fight with Cool senior). The fight came about because Cool had abducted Muireann Muncháem (&quot;beautiful neck&quot;) the daughter of Kildare druid Tadg mac Nuadat (Tadg son of Nuada), who appealed to High King Conn Cétchathach (&quot;Con of the Hundred Battles&quot;) who outlawed mister Cool and gave his rivals the perfect excuse to do away with him.

&lt;em&gt;ha ha ha ha ha&lt;/em&gt;

But Muireann was already pregnant by Cool by the time they got her back, and her father didn&#039;t want to know after this, so baby Finn -- who, remember, at this time was known by his birth name of Demne - was put into the care of his father&#039;s sister, the druidess Bodhmall, and her female warrior companion Liath Luachra, who raised him in the forests of the Slieve Bloom Mountains in Offally and Laois (pron. leesh)

He got the nick-name of Finn in childhood by some boys seeing him swim in the river, because of his pale hair glinting in the sun.

He was brought up trained in the art of warriorship and druidry, andas a youth, entered the service of a number of local kings in the midlands incognito, but such was his skill his true identity was always discovered and he was sent packing because it was too politically sensitive for a minor king to be having the son of Cool in his camp.

At the age of 15, he fell into with Finn Éces, or Finnegas the druid, who had his nemeton (druidic grove) by the banks of the river Boyne, where he had set up hoping to catch a Salmon of Knowledge, and took Finn in as his pupil, teaching him in the poetic craft.

Finnegas is obviously a cipher for bright, good, positive (finn) knowledge Finn Éces, and Finnegas had been told a prophesy, that though he would indeed catch one of the fabled Salmon of Knowledge, but alas he Finnegas would not get to profit intellectually and magically from the nuts of knowledge the fish had feasted on at Segias, as another person, someone called Fionn, would instead. 

Now, this tale already has two people called Finn, one of whom is going by a nom de plume and with a real name of Demne and Finn Éces being the original name of Finnegas.

One day after seven yrs waiting by the bank and practicing druidry whilst also instructing his pupil Demne, (seven years being the time it took to enter the ollamh zone) Finnegas caught the fabled fish and naturally, remembering the prophecy - that not he but a person called Finn would get his mind altered by it, recieving the source of all poetry -- Finnegas would have no doubt had a look around, checking that no likely candidtae was about for the fish to fall into their hands. Giving the fish to Demne he told him to cook it, but on no account eat any of it, not even a crumb, as the deal was s/he who had the first taste, got the poetic gift all at once.

Demne/Finn was cooking it, and some fish fat accidently splashed onto his thumb, and instinctively sticking it in his mouth, the knowledge from the nuts of wisdom, instantly infused him and when Finnegas came back to the cooking area, could tell straight away by the look on Finn’s face, what had happened.

~

So before i go to part two and talk about the muse of Segais in real terms, that&#039;s the background we need know, in all seriousess, if we are to be a proper bore others moan about for hogging the binary data bits in cyberville mohn..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ANTI-POETS: SCROLL PAST. SERIOUS IRISH MYTHOLOGICAL MUSE THE FRUITS OF 8 YEARS STUDY &#8211; FREE TO READ HERE NOW WOW INNIT FAB !!</p>
<p>Larkin my arse, but what a way to go, collapsing in the bog with your gob pressed against the hot pipes and then your last words to one of the three women you&#8217;re juggling, *shred the diaries.*</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>Before i go onto the Muse proper, i feel a need to give the full background to it, in the tradition i centre my theatrics in, otherwise the full of it is lost and i cannot honestly proceed gettiong on the wick of others.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>What is the Muse but Memory of a great tradition, Finnegas and Finn McCool speaking what&#8217;s what vis a vis poetry per se, as in the meaning of *éces* &#8211; which the modern Irish word for poetry, éigse* routes to.</p>
<p>Éces is an Old Irish word which the word *poetry* as we understand it today doesn&#8217;t really capture. In the most basic of sense it means the nuts and bolts of knowledge. </p>
<p>~ </p>
<p>Mnemosyne, the original Greek muse, the etymology rooting to house of moon, its essential meaning: Memory.</p>
<p>Her pool in Hades was the opposite of Lethe, which was the pool/river of forgetfulness the dead drank from so they would not remember their past life when being re-incarnated.</p>
<p>The Orphic Mystery rites had initiates drink from Mnemosyne&#8217;s pool so they would acquire omniscience and instead of being re-born, go onto the Elysian Fields, which Hesiod in Works and Days refers to as the Isles of the Blessed, far to the west and which in Celtic Mythology are Tír na nÓg, (land of the ever young) the most popular of several Celtic otherworlds in which all is fab &#8211; another one called the Isle of Happy is where happiness is found, similar to Avalon.</p>
<p>The poetic Tradition of Gaelic poetry, is called *on coimgne* &#8211; which Kuno Meyer translated as *historical knowlege*. Meyer was an early 20C Celticist who, along with Rudolph Thurneyson, Osborn Bergin, D.A. Binchy (uncle of Maeve) and others, first translated Gaelic manuscript and were part of the Dublin milleau of Yeats and his cronies.</p>
<p>On Coimgne breaks down into 350 tales, 250 primary and 100 secondary. Secondary ones were never written down and only learned from grade four cano (whelp) up to seven ollamh (poetry professor), passed from lip to ear.</p>
<p>A list of 187 primary tales in 16 genres appear on folio 189b of the 12C Book of Leinster: Do nemthigud filed, a translation of which is here <a href="http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/poet_qualifications.html" rel="nofollow">Of the Qualifications of a Poet</a>.</p>
<p>Destructions (9), and Preyings (11), and Courtships (14), and Battles (9), and Caves (11), and Navigations (7), and Tragedies (13), and Feats (17) and Sieges (9) and Adventures (14) and Elopements (12) and Massacres (38) and Eruptions (2) and Visions (7) and Expeditions (4), and Marches (13). </p>
<p>The maxim following this primer reads: <em>&#8220;(s)he is no poet who does not synchronize and harmonize on coimgne&#8221; the great knowledge.</em></p>
<p>~</p>
<p>Which brings us to the Muse in Gaelic poetry.</p>
<p>The otherworldly omphalos, the wet muse of Irish myth, is known by a variety of names: the Well of Segais, Sidhe Nechtan and Connla&#8217;s Well.</p>
<p>The mythology surrounding the well states it is a still-pool source of the Boyne river, and informs us how only Nechtan and his three cupbearers were allowed in the vicinity of the well, to perform magical rites, walking round it clockwise and no doubt muttering holy mumbo jumbo to invoke a supreme intelligence they hoped would deal favourably with their wants and wishes. </p>
<p>One day Nechtan&#8217;s wife Boand (who gave her name to the river Boyne) broke the taboo or *geisa* of not going near the well, and walked round it counter-clockwise, causing it to erupt in fury and bring the river Boyne into being, whilst scattering Boand&#8217;s limb and body parts in places whose toponyms etymologically route to her name and are recorded in another body of lore the poet need learn to qualify, the Dindsenchas.</p>
<p>The dindsenchas are 176 poems and prose commentaries which recount how places got their name. The <a href="http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T106500C/text002.html" rel="nofollow">23 stanza poem of the dindsenchas</a> which tells how the Boyne got hers, is at the link.</p>
<p>~ </p>
<p>The well is surrounded by nine hazel trees, and each nut contains total poetic wisdom, and these nuts are known as *the nuts of knowledge* &#8212; cnó coill hEolas which (according the Cauldron of Poesy: </p>
<p><em>&#8220;&#8230;cast themselves in great quantities like a ram&#8217;s fleece upon the ridges of the Boyne, moving against the stream swifter than racehorses driven in the middle-month on the magnificent day every seven years.</em></p>
<p>~</p>
<p>Unlike the fruit on the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden, there is no sense of the forbidden about them, (indeed they are greatly prized if highly elusive) and the short-cut way to get instantly cleverer than one&#8217;s rivals and dispense with the 12 difficult years of hard graft in the bardic curriculum, is to catch a Salmon of Knowledge who has fed on the nuts in the well and eat it, thereby ingesting the full of poetic wisdom seciond hand. The earliest name for the Salmon of wisodm/knowledge is eo fis and the modern name is bradán feasa.</p>
<p>A Fionn mac Cumhaill (Finn son of Cumhaill) tale encapsulates this poetic of getting it all at once by eating the Salmon of Knowledge, which appears in the body of lore known as The Boyood Deeds of Finn McCool, found in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenian_Cycle" rel="nofollow">Fenian Cycle</a> of Irish myth and which there is some debate as to the era the tales where set in, but in the centuries around the time of Christ, and these started getting written down in the 7C.</p>
<p>There are four cycles in Irish myth, the other three being: </p>
<p>2 &#8211; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythological_Cycle" rel="nofollow">Mythological Cycle</a> &#8211; detailing the pagan invasion mythology and featuring a cast<br />
 from six races of gods who fight amongst themselves for control of the island.</p>
<p>3 &#8211; <a>Historical Cycle</a> &#8211; cycle of kings detailing tales of legendary kings</p>
<p>4 &#8211; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Cycle" rel="nofollow">Ulster Cycle</a> set ion the time of king Conchobar mac Nessa, in the time Pliny was writing around the time of Christ and detailing the adventures and battles of of the Uliad and their hero Cúchulainn, with ther rivals in Connacht, led by Maeve and the prime tale being Táin Bó Cúailnge &#8211; cattle raid of Cooley.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>Finn McCool is the name of a person whose birth-name was Demne: (finn means *fair, bright, shining* and with a positive charge on fair) a poet-warrior who was the last chief of the fianna in Irish mythology. The fianna were independant aristocratic bands of young men who lived outside of society and were called upon by various petty kings in times of war to fight their battles amongst themselves, and who went raiding across the sea for thralls and spoil. </p>
<p>Finn&#8217;s father Cumhaill, was also a chief of the fianna, killed by his rival for the leadership, Goll mac Morna (goll meaning one eyed, which came about his fight with Cool senior). The fight came about because Cool had abducted Muireann Muncháem (&#8221;beautiful neck&#8221;) the daughter of Kildare druid Tadg mac Nuadat (Tadg son of Nuada), who appealed to High King Conn Cétchathach (&#8221;Con of the Hundred Battles&#8221;) who outlawed mister Cool and gave his rivals the perfect excuse to do away with him.</p>
<p><em>ha ha ha ha ha</em></p>
<p>But Muireann was already pregnant by Cool by the time they got her back, and her father didn&#8217;t want to know after this, so baby Finn &#8212; who, remember, at this time was known by his birth name of Demne &#8211; was put into the care of his father&#8217;s sister, the druidess Bodhmall, and her female warrior companion Liath Luachra, who raised him in the forests of the Slieve Bloom Mountains in Offally and Laois (pron. leesh)</p>
<p>He got the nick-name of Finn in childhood by some boys seeing him swim in the river, because of his pale hair glinting in the sun.</p>
<p>He was brought up trained in the art of warriorship and druidry, andas a youth, entered the service of a number of local kings in the midlands incognito, but such was his skill his true identity was always discovered and he was sent packing because it was too politically sensitive for a minor king to be having the son of Cool in his camp.</p>
<p>At the age of 15, he fell into with Finn Éces, or Finnegas the druid, who had his nemeton (druidic grove) by the banks of the river Boyne, where he had set up hoping to catch a Salmon of Knowledge, and took Finn in as his pupil, teaching him in the poetic craft.</p>
<p>Finnegas is obviously a cipher for bright, good, positive (finn) knowledge Finn Éces, and Finnegas had been told a prophesy, that though he would indeed catch one of the fabled Salmon of Knowledge, but alas he Finnegas would not get to profit intellectually and magically from the nuts of knowledge the fish had feasted on at Segias, as another person, someone called Fionn, would instead. </p>
<p>Now, this tale already has two people called Finn, one of whom is going by a nom de plume and with a real name of Demne and Finn Éces being the original name of Finnegas.</p>
<p>One day after seven yrs waiting by the bank and practicing druidry whilst also instructing his pupil Demne, (seven years being the time it took to enter the ollamh zone) Finnegas caught the fabled fish and naturally, remembering the prophecy &#8211; that not he but a person called Finn would get his mind altered by it, recieving the source of all poetry &#8212; Finnegas would have no doubt had a look around, checking that no likely candidtae was about for the fish to fall into their hands. Giving the fish to Demne he told him to cook it, but on no account eat any of it, not even a crumb, as the deal was s/he who had the first taste, got the poetic gift all at once.</p>
<p>Demne/Finn was cooking it, and some fish fat accidently splashed onto his thumb, and instinctively sticking it in his mouth, the knowledge from the nuts of wisdom, instantly infused him and when Finnegas came back to the cooking area, could tell straight away by the look on Finn’s face, what had happened.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>So before i go to part two and talk about the muse of Segais in real terms, that&#8217;s the background we need know, in all seriousess, if we are to be a proper bore others moan about for hogging the binary data bits in cyberville mohn..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher Woodman</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15680</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15680</guid>
		<description>I read Harriet for just the opposite reason, because nobody compels me. There&#039;s such a rich variety of voices, viewpoints, and vocations I&#039;m thrilled every visit, and even though I don&#039;t know anybody in the circle, and have never been near any of the places, I feel right at home.

I will miss Annie Finch as well, Ellen, but I will miss you too. Because don&#039;t worry, I noticed!

Christopher</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read Harriet for just the opposite reason, because nobody compels me. There&#8217;s such a rich variety of voices, viewpoints, and vocations I&#8217;m thrilled every visit, and even though I don&#8217;t know anybody in the circle, and have never been near any of the places, I feel right at home.</p>
<p>I will miss Annie Finch as well, Ellen, but I will miss you too. Because don&#8217;t worry, I noticed!</p>
<p>Christopher</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ellen Moody</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15672</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen Moody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15672</guid>
		<description>Sorry you&#039;re retiring from Harriet Blog.  I&#039;ll miss you. I read blogs for specific authors far more than for the content and as I&#039;ve not found anyone who compels me here, I&#039;ll probably not read this blog regularly any more.

Ellen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry you&#8217;re retiring from Harriet Blog.  I&#8217;ll miss you. I read blogs for specific authors far more than for the content and as I&#8217;ve not found anyone who compels me here, I&#8217;ll probably not read this blog regularly any more.</p>
<p>Ellen</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Margo Berdeshevsky</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15644</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo Berdeshevsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15644</guid>
		<description>Yes, I see how the threads are braiding, Terreson. (Maybe a muse is to blame. She may like such images as stone &amp; fire &amp; hunger &amp; ash;  I do. ) And I do see how Jeffers would stand with the eaters of stone rather than the merchants or merchandizers. But the rest of that poem still rankles without hope. Meet you in the other cave, perhaps, eventually. 

margo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I see how the threads are braiding, Terreson. (Maybe a muse is to blame. She may like such images as stone &amp; fire &amp; hunger &amp; ash;  I do. ) And I do see how Jeffers would stand with the eaters of stone rather than the merchants or merchandizers. But the rest of that poem still rankles without hope. Meet you in the other cave, perhaps, eventually. </p>
<p>margo</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Terreson</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15641</link>
		<dc:creator>Terreson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15641</guid>
		<description>Well, Margo Berdeshevsky, thanks for more than returning the favor.  I suspect these stories, always unverifiable in a delightful sort of way, are world wide.  Sort of like the mysterious appearance of the many Black Madonnas in 12th C European cathedrals.  And you are right.  The provenance of the experience or vision matters much less than the experience itself.  All musers and children know as much, right?

By the way, at the expense of cross-pollinating blogs, you just answered your own Jeffers quandry: &quot;In other words, it was the land that would feed them. Not greed.&quot;  This was Jeffers belief too.  This and that humanistic solipsism, as he called it, was the greatest danger to the planet.  I know a historian who once told me that, in America, the only freedom left is the choice of which brand names to buy.  I suspect Jeffers, were he living today, would come to much the same.

Terreson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Margo Berdeshevsky, thanks for more than returning the favor.  I suspect these stories, always unverifiable in a delightful sort of way, are world wide.  Sort of like the mysterious appearance of the many Black Madonnas in 12th C European cathedrals.  And you are right.  The provenance of the experience or vision matters much less than the experience itself.  All musers and children know as much, right?</p>
<p>By the way, at the expense of cross-pollinating blogs, you just answered your own Jeffers quandry: &#8220;In other words, it was the land that would feed them. Not greed.&#8221;  This was Jeffers belief too.  This and that humanistic solipsism, as he called it, was the greatest danger to the planet.  I know a historian who once told me that, in America, the only freedom left is the choice of which brand names to buy.  I suspect Jeffers, were he living today, would come to much the same.</p>
<p>Terreson</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: thomas brady</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15628</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15628</guid>
		<description>I suspect Yeats was a counter-spy for the British Empire in his insistent wooing of Gonne (and later her daughter!); after all, Ford Madox Ford, the leader of the reactionary-modernist ring which included Yeats, Pound, American-turned-Brit TS Eliot, the Agrarian, &#039;Old South&#039; defenders/Fugitives/New Critics who included the crackpot Robert Graves (and friends British Empire warrior TE Lawrence and &#039;doors of perception&#039; occultist Aldous Huxley) who were so anxious to hate the Irish-American Poe, worked for the British War Propaganda Office.  Gonne was serious about Irish politics; the occultist Yeats was more into the Irish as sprites and fairies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect Yeats was a counter-spy for the British Empire in his insistent wooing of Gonne (and later her daughter!); after all, Ford Madox Ford, the leader of the reactionary-modernist ring which included Yeats, Pound, American-turned-Brit TS Eliot, the Agrarian, &#8216;Old South&#8217; defenders/Fugitives/New Critics who included the crackpot Robert Graves (and friends British Empire warrior TE Lawrence and &#8216;doors of perception&#8217; occultist Aldous Huxley) who were so anxious to hate the Irish-American Poe, worked for the British War Propaganda Office.  Gonne was serious about Irish politics; the occultist Yeats was more into the Irish as sprites and fairies.</p>
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		<title>By: Margo Berdeshevsky</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15618</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo Berdeshevsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15618</guid>
		<description>Terreson, these are wonderful tellings. Thank you. And they bring another culture&#039;s goddess to mind: in the Hawaiian lands, the goddess of all that pertains to fire in the mythos of the Pacific, Pele, is often seeing on dark roads, accompanied by a small white dog. Sometimes the woman is a hag with ashen coils of hair, sometimes she is a powerful beauty. Sometimes she stops cars. Sometimes she saves one house in the path of a new volcanic flow and lets its neighbor burn. It&#039;s said she keeps her family, her believers safe...and inspires chants,to this day.  

And your re-telling of Maud Gonne&#039;s little stones to freedom, (o, lovely, lovely--that brings a real shiver to me. To be &quot;one little stone&quot;on a such a path is  worth more to me than a sky of July 4th invocations!Even as I&#039;m trying  to reconsider freedom in Joel Brouwer&#039;s neighboring Harriet post.) Am I rambling? Forgive me. 

Your post also brings me to another Hawaiian telling.(I lived in those islands once, long enough to learn its visions.)  The last reigning queen there, Liliu&#039;o&#039;kalani, imprisoned in her own palace by desirous-for-land American business men-- told her people to &quot;eat stones.&quot; In other words, it was the land that would feed them. Not greed. 

This queen is both role model and muse for young activists, there. Pele is protectress and muse for her believers. In my much shorter post above, I was only pausing to see that it matters less to me if the inspiration is &quot;real&quot; or interior, or exterior.We are wealthy for each presence, each inspiration, yes? The wind would be so empty, maybe, without them. 

margo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terreson, these are wonderful tellings. Thank you. And they bring another culture&#8217;s goddess to mind: in the Hawaiian lands, the goddess of all that pertains to fire in the mythos of the Pacific, Pele, is often seeing on dark roads, accompanied by a small white dog. Sometimes the woman is a hag with ashen coils of hair, sometimes she is a powerful beauty. Sometimes she stops cars. Sometimes she saves one house in the path of a new volcanic flow and lets its neighbor burn. It&#8217;s said she keeps her family, her believers safe&#8230;and inspires chants,to this day.  </p>
<p>And your re-telling of Maud Gonne&#8217;s little stones to freedom, (o, lovely, lovely&#8211;that brings a real shiver to me. To be &#8220;one little stone&#8221;on a such a path is  worth more to me than a sky of July 4th invocations!Even as I&#8217;m trying  to reconsider freedom in Joel Brouwer&#8217;s neighboring Harriet post.) Am I rambling? Forgive me. </p>
<p>Your post also brings me to another Hawaiian telling.(I lived in those islands once, long enough to learn its visions.)  The last reigning queen there, Liliu&#8217;o'kalani, imprisoned in her own palace by desirous-for-land American business men&#8211; told her people to &#8220;eat stones.&#8221; In other words, it was the land that would feed them. Not greed. </p>
<p>This queen is both role model and muse for young activists, there. Pele is protectress and muse for her believers. In my much shorter post above, I was only pausing to see that it matters less to me if the inspiration is &#8220;real&#8221; or interior, or exterior.We are wealthy for each presence, each inspiration, yes? The wind would be so empty, maybe, without them. </p>
<p>margo</p>
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		<title>By: Terreson</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15591</link>
		<dc:creator>Terreson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15591</guid>
		<description>Margo Berdeshevsky, I read your latest post earlier.  An hour or so ago it brought to mind a couple of stories the Irish Nationalist, Maud Gonne, tells in her autobiography, &quot;In the Service of the Queen.&quot;  She explains the title of her book in an early, short chapter called &quot;I Saw The Queen.&quot;  She was returning to Dublin from Mayo by train where she had faught to stave off a famine in the countryside.  This is what she said she saw:

&quot;Tired but glowing I looked out the window of the train at the dark bog land where now only the tiny lakes gleamed in the fading light.  Then I saw a tall beautiful woman with dark hair blown on the wind and I knew it was Cathleen ni Houlihan.  She was crossing the bog towards the hills, springing from stone to stone over the treacherous surface,and the little white stones shone, marking a path behind her, then faded into the darkness.  I heard a voice say: &#039;You are one of the little stones on which the feet of the Queen have rested on her way to Freedom.&#039;  The sadness of the night took hold of me and I cried; it seemed so lonely just to be one of those little stones left behind on the path.

&quot;Being old now and not triumphant I know the blessedness of having been &#039;one of those little stones&#039; on the path to Freedom.&quot;

She also tells the story about a &quot;beautiful dark woman with the sorrowful eyes&quot; she had seen since childhood.  The woman would occasionally visit her at night, bending over her bed.  She knew the woman belonged to the borderland between the living and the dead.  And so she decided once to start evoking the woman as means for working her (political) will.  But the more she evoked her the stronger and happier the woman became until finally there was a clash of wills between them and Gonne decided to banish her. A third story she tells of a mysterious woman coming to a village in which the inhabitants are being evicted en masse.  The woman brings with her good luck and Gonne and others are able to reverse the evictions.  She calls the woman &quot;the woman of the Sidhe.&quot; 

The fun part of all this is that, while Gonne was slightly interested in the occult, would follow Willie Yeats&#039; lead and knew some of the people involved in the Order of the Golden Dawn, she was a very pragmatic, hard-headed, no nonsense political activist and intriguer whose driving passion was Irish Nationalism and the pull down of the British Empire.  (The British even suspected her of being a spy working against them during WW 1, the likelihood of which is reasonably high.)

Muse?  Goddess?  A psychologically interiorized situation?  Anyway, the women were real enough for Maud Gonne.

Terreson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margo Berdeshevsky, I read your latest post earlier.  An hour or so ago it brought to mind a couple of stories the Irish Nationalist, Maud Gonne, tells in her autobiography, &#8220;In the Service of the Queen.&#8221;  She explains the title of her book in an early, short chapter called &#8220;I Saw The Queen.&#8221;  She was returning to Dublin from Mayo by train where she had faught to stave off a famine in the countryside.  This is what she said she saw:</p>
<p>&#8220;Tired but glowing I looked out the window of the train at the dark bog land where now only the tiny lakes gleamed in the fading light.  Then I saw a tall beautiful woman with dark hair blown on the wind and I knew it was Cathleen ni Houlihan.  She was crossing the bog towards the hills, springing from stone to stone over the treacherous surface,and the little white stones shone, marking a path behind her, then faded into the darkness.  I heard a voice say: &#8216;You are one of the little stones on which the feet of the Queen have rested on her way to Freedom.&#8217;  The sadness of the night took hold of me and I cried; it seemed so lonely just to be one of those little stones left behind on the path.</p>
<p>&#8220;Being old now and not triumphant I know the blessedness of having been &#8216;one of those little stones&#8217; on the path to Freedom.&#8221;</p>
<p>She also tells the story about a &#8220;beautiful dark woman with the sorrowful eyes&#8221; she had seen since childhood.  The woman would occasionally visit her at night, bending over her bed.  She knew the woman belonged to the borderland between the living and the dead.  And so she decided once to start evoking the woman as means for working her (political) will.  But the more she evoked her the stronger and happier the woman became until finally there was a clash of wills between them and Gonne decided to banish her. A third story she tells of a mysterious woman coming to a village in which the inhabitants are being evicted en masse.  The woman brings with her good luck and Gonne and others are able to reverse the evictions.  She calls the woman &#8220;the woman of the Sidhe.&#8221; </p>
<p>The fun part of all this is that, while Gonne was slightly interested in the occult, would follow Willie Yeats&#8217; lead and knew some of the people involved in the Order of the Golden Dawn, she was a very pragmatic, hard-headed, no nonsense political activist and intriguer whose driving passion was Irish Nationalism and the pull down of the British Empire.  (The British even suspected her of being a spy working against them during WW 1, the likelihood of which is reasonably high.)</p>
<p>Muse?  Goddess?  A psychologically interiorized situation?  Anyway, the women were real enough for Maud Gonne.</p>
<p>Terreson</p>
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		<title>By: Margo Berdeshevsky</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/06/muse-goddess/#comment-15546</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo Berdeshevsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=3929#comment-15546</guid>
		<description>ah, sorry to appear to merely repeat your mention of Lawrence, Tim, I just saw that; though,Frieda used that phrase as title to her own 1934 (fictionalized) memoir--&amp; it takes on a different meaning, for all the (her) reasons. 
m</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, sorry to appear to merely repeat your mention of Lawrence, Tim, I just saw that; though,Frieda used that phrase as title to her own 1934 (fictionalized) memoir&#8211;&amp; it takes on a different meaning, for all the (her) reasons.<br />
m</p>
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