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	<title>Comments on: Flarf and Conceptual Writing in Poetry Magazine</title>
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	<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/</link>
	<description>A blog from the Poetry Foundation where contemporary poets debate classic and contemporary poetry from America and around the world.</description>
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		<title>By: Lily</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-16192</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-16192</guid>
		<description>Duane.  I love you.  If you truely respect our Indian ancestors you will respect your elder sister, as our father respected his.  I don&#039;t want anything from you but the love of my brother.  I was just there for a week during which time I witnessed Elisa and her brother Steve.  All I ask of you is to admit your love for your sister.  Is that so hard?  I respect you as a man, you need to find your respect for me, as a woman and as your elder sister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duane.  I love you.  If you truely respect our Indian ancestors you will respect your elder sister, as our father respected his.  I don&#8217;t want anything from you but the love of my brother.  I was just there for a week during which time I witnessed Elisa and her brother Steve.  All I ask of you is to admit your love for your sister.  Is that so hard?  I respect you as a man, you need to find your respect for me, as a woman and as your elder sister.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M. John C.</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15785</link>
		<dc:creator>M. John C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15785</guid>
		<description>Self-promotion is commentary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Self-promotion is commentary.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Oliver Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15574</link>
		<dc:creator>John Oliver Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15574</guid>
		<description>Dichotomy is scaffolding... reality is burning. Flarf tastes of ash on the wind.

Peruvian poet Mirko Lauer, my translation, published in New World: New Words (Center for the Art of Translation, 2007). Caveats for long-line overrun in blog format.


SURVIVAL:
EIGHT STANZAS OF COMMENTARY ON THE WORDS OF BUDDHA

All of reality is burning, and you can’t beat that as a sentence.
Complete reality accumulates in a volatile stack
at the limits of loss. What’s yours and what’s his are consumed
leaning against the retina, on the smooth palm of your hand.
Only love’s a grave thing, grave as the world’s universal gravity
which weighs equally burning Isaac Newton and an apple.

Nobody bathes twice in the same river, and you can’t beat that as a sentence either.
The world lacks a shadow, reality’s the oil your heart floats in.
Doors open on boiling water: you get out of one river and get in another;
your bones shiver with ignorance on all thresholds, while your reckless soul
sails on sustained by unknowns and by feathers.

Silence unites eloquence and first–degree dangers,
possibilities of words that are flowerings of the skin,
wounds and multicolors heaped to form a black tower. Your brothers
the corpses are toasting in that silence, and stalagmites
attract dribbling lightning nobody dares to grasp for the sacrifice
of reality that falls all over itself, with flames and crackling.

A rustling beach of dry towels at the shore of the shower reminds you
of the passage of water which comprises all reality and yields
ablution of existence to soiled unmoving in two instants:
alabaster and onyx, onomatopoeia and miracle,
metaphorical life and literal death, the cradle and the bed,
filling your ears with the boxed fru–fru of these combinations.

Birds fly with flaming feathers, perforated by combustible air,
their hexagonal bodies traversing, delayed along the bias.
In the southern desert light pierces the dust, lifting fragile columns
the wind carries away in flames. And even what’s unreal holds your head
against that of a match which explodes in a glance’s fission,
prisoner likewise of an inextinguishable flame.


Forgiven by the unforgivable, your chest boasting wet flowers,
chlorophyll and cadmium bunched: water that you are and grasp,
flow in which you see and are, impeccably adrift, molested.
And you leave the bacchanal engrossed, your hands washed and a sailboat
tacking against the wind of your dream. Sponges which are darts seek your chest,
find your chest, pass through your chest and forget your chest in their flight.

Nobody laughs twice in the same bathtub, nor rubs their body against another
without multiplying it. Banal and tragic conclusion: it’s impossible
to be alone without the aid of a mirror. And you leave your cell perplexed, your temples frozen;
and you leave your study wiped out, with drenched femurs;
and you get out of the river and get in the river and get in the river and get out of the river
through an expiatory abyss of portals and trampolines.

There’s a bonfire in the golden entrails of the guinea pig. All of reality is suffering
the burning stain of that uncaressable mildness. Your house is burning while you sleep,
the world screams while you contemplate, the ovens groan with jaws ajar
exhausted by the ash that lacerates your confused forehead, and floats toward the green ground
where a million blades of grass are consumed to make one meadow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dichotomy is scaffolding&#8230; reality is burning. Flarf tastes of ash on the wind.</p>
<p>Peruvian poet Mirko Lauer, my translation, published in New World: New Words (Center for the Art of Translation, 2007). Caveats for long-line overrun in blog format.</p>
<p>SURVIVAL:<br />
EIGHT STANZAS OF COMMENTARY ON THE WORDS OF BUDDHA</p>
<p>All of reality is burning, and you can’t beat that as a sentence.<br />
Complete reality accumulates in a volatile stack<br />
at the limits of loss. What’s yours and what’s his are consumed<br />
leaning against the retina, on the smooth palm of your hand.<br />
Only love’s a grave thing, grave as the world’s universal gravity<br />
which weighs equally burning Isaac Newton and an apple.</p>
<p>Nobody bathes twice in the same river, and you can’t beat that as a sentence either.<br />
The world lacks a shadow, reality’s the oil your heart floats in.<br />
Doors open on boiling water: you get out of one river and get in another;<br />
your bones shiver with ignorance on all thresholds, while your reckless soul<br />
sails on sustained by unknowns and by feathers.</p>
<p>Silence unites eloquence and first–degree dangers,<br />
possibilities of words that are flowerings of the skin,<br />
wounds and multicolors heaped to form a black tower. Your brothers<br />
the corpses are toasting in that silence, and stalagmites<br />
attract dribbling lightning nobody dares to grasp for the sacrifice<br />
of reality that falls all over itself, with flames and crackling.</p>
<p>A rustling beach of dry towels at the shore of the shower reminds you<br />
of the passage of water which comprises all reality and yields<br />
ablution of existence to soiled unmoving in two instants:<br />
alabaster and onyx, onomatopoeia and miracle,<br />
metaphorical life and literal death, the cradle and the bed,<br />
filling your ears with the boxed fru–fru of these combinations.</p>
<p>Birds fly with flaming feathers, perforated by combustible air,<br />
their hexagonal bodies traversing, delayed along the bias.<br />
In the southern desert light pierces the dust, lifting fragile columns<br />
the wind carries away in flames. And even what’s unreal holds your head<br />
against that of a match which explodes in a glance’s fission,<br />
prisoner likewise of an inextinguishable flame.</p>
<p>Forgiven by the unforgivable, your chest boasting wet flowers,<br />
chlorophyll and cadmium bunched: water that you are and grasp,<br />
flow in which you see and are, impeccably adrift, molested.<br />
And you leave the bacchanal engrossed, your hands washed and a sailboat<br />
tacking against the wind of your dream. Sponges which are darts seek your chest,<br />
find your chest, pass through your chest and forget your chest in their flight.</p>
<p>Nobody laughs twice in the same bathtub, nor rubs their body against another<br />
without multiplying it. Banal and tragic conclusion: it’s impossible<br />
to be alone without the aid of a mirror. And you leave your cell perplexed, your temples frozen;<br />
and you leave your study wiped out, with drenched femurs;<br />
and you get out of the river and get in the river and get in the river and get out of the river<br />
through an expiatory abyss of portals and trampolines.</p>
<p>There’s a bonfire in the golden entrails of the guinea pig. All of reality is suffering<br />
the burning stain of that uncaressable mildness. Your house is burning while you sleep,<br />
the world screams while you contemplate, the ovens groan with jaws ajar<br />
exhausted by the ash that lacerates your confused forehead, and floats toward the green ground<br />
where a million blades of grass are consumed to make one meadow.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M. John C.</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15572</link>
		<dc:creator>M. John C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15572</guid>
		<description>Dichotomy is scaffolding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dichotomy is scaffolding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Oliver Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15481</link>
		<dc:creator>John Oliver Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15481</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the knighthood Des.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the knighthood Des.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Desmond Swords</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15448</link>
		<dc:creator>Desmond Swords</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15448</guid>
		<description>I am just trying to lure the bard of Armagh into yielding more of his finely wrought consciousness Sir John, knowing Winters is on his hit list and on reading Yvor in the latest issue of Poetry, which has horrified many a poster on that radically subversive poetry board ablemuse-eratosphere, appalled flarf poetry had reached:

&lt;em&gt;&quot;...a new low-water mark in the publication of Poetry?&quot;

There are many outraged and unhappy posters, close to the edge mohn, yah, rip Jah up dem sigheed:

&lt;em&gt;This is why one of these days I&#039;ll probably take a hiatus from poetry for several years (again) and return to my musical proclivities.&lt;/em&gt;

Oh hear ye fools in verbal trade
what is shoddy and not well made 
in a country where knaves teach 
less and less literature each day 

where ignorance reigns supreme
and fewer people read, but steal
that which is written, to write ten 
and more flarf poems at one sitting -  

&lt;em&gt;I guess the long and the short of it is that..you just have to focus on your own craft, and not worry about what others are doing and/or publishing...I sometimes wonder if maybe the Dickinson approach is the best. Just file them all away somewhere and hope they&#039;ll be discovered post mortem to a much more sensible audience.&lt;/em&gt;

ask yourself, not what s/he can give 
you, what gift of the mind invisibly 
got gets you to the top, 

but what you can give the mohn
who give you blud clop &#039;n git-stab

&lt;em&gt;...it has seemed to me that the last year or two of Poetry has been pretty good...Wiman is consciously trying to represent a wide range of styles and schools, while trying to maintain a high standard -- a tough task.&lt;em&gt;

up shady back lanes where scangers
drink, sniff and shoot from the lip
vile accursed oaths to a pissing
down sky. Bent over double, scumbag

dort bords who&#039;ll jigger in real 
live evil warm and nice, backwards 
mirror every thought you ever had

and turn the feet of mother earth

&lt;em&gt;I stopped my subscription to Poetry when I could no longer stomach their self-styled image as a barometer of contemporary poetry, when in fact their attitude is parochial, elitist and narrow-minded in the extreme...with some exceptions, has a sameness that makes you feel it might have been written by a few of the same people (which a lot of it is)...much if not most...utter incomprehensible gibberish...puts people off poetry because...makes them feel dumb..perplexed..bored..brought down the wrath of the Universe...I consider myself an open-minded, intelligent person...I have tried, really tried, but fail to understand the prestigious reputation Poetry continues to enjoy.&lt;/em&gt;

Revolutionary as a Bosch CBS 520
Interrogating oranges in Cuba
at full torque - ask yourself, what&#039;s

surreal as a lemon in outer space,
ducks quack in a vacuum and Welsh
tragedy played straight on the face 
of a red dwarf in the Virgo 
Supercluster - buster.


&lt;em&gt;&quot;My first marriage took place in the Rothko chapel
...we don&#039;t like what&#039;s playing on one channel

exactly explain what it is that&#039;s &#039;new&#039; or &#039;conceptual&#039; Whitman: did the list a hundred and fifty years ago
invoke the imitative fallacy

...contemporary mall directory poems fail because they&#039;re too &quot;mallish&quot;, not because there&#039;s something inherently un-poetic about malls

..Ruth Lilly, what hath thou wrought?

a formalist poet, give me hope for our art, 
for the rest of its oy vey.

didn&#039;t say that &quot;everything&quot; was bad

fans, and neo-beatniks getting all the way 
through any given issue 

too divided into schools
Sudoku? Armantrout put it in its place 
last month&#039;s issue

often seems like a lot of wank
writing a play about dull lives 
Trying to put things back

serves up Videlock, Stallings, Goldbarth, 
et al elsewhere
Apples, schnapples, want that analogy

the slush pile, I&#039;m putting a dollar on
Mallarmé, Apollinaire, newspapers 

and billboard posters, Alien vs. Predator
reading the product&#039;s &quot;blurb&quot; 
the context and commentary for Duchamp&#039;s urinal 

Guy Debord and Jean-Luc Godard, détournement
the best example, Ducasse&#039;s Poésies of course
is what pop art is all about also

bored with a narcissistic wank job, 
designing a tire-girded goat, or a flower

With a hey, and a ho, and a hey-nonny-no,
&#039;real poetry&#039; 

fusing the avant-garde impulse
explaining a shattered yo-yo, shit in boxes
Bananas not apples, and yet a wrecking bar

smashes your yo-yo, 
come to you in sheep&#039;s clothing, the great poet 
11 per year and most only relating
a kind of corrosive, cute, or cloying awfulness

intentionally bad, frivolous, or wacky, formed 
by a collage of quasi-random stand-up comedienne&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just trying to lure the bard of Armagh into yielding more of his finely wrought consciousness Sir John, knowing Winters is on his hit list and on reading Yvor in the latest issue of Poetry, which has horrified many a poster on that radically subversive poetry board ablemuse-eratosphere, appalled flarf poetry had reached:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;&#8230;a new low-water mark in the publication of Poetry?&#8221;</p>
<p>There are many outraged and unhappy posters, close to the edge mohn, yah, rip Jah up dem sigheed:</p>
<p></em><em>This is why one of these days I&#8217;ll probably take a hiatus from poetry for several years (again) and return to my musical proclivities.</em></p>
<p>Oh hear ye fools in verbal trade<br />
what is shoddy and not well made<br />
in a country where knaves teach<br />
less and less literature each day </p>
<p>where ignorance reigns supreme<br />
and fewer people read, but steal<br />
that which is written, to write ten<br />
and more flarf poems at one sitting &#8211;  </p>
<p><em>I guess the long and the short of it is that..you just have to focus on your own craft, and not worry about what others are doing and/or publishing&#8230;I sometimes wonder if maybe the Dickinson approach is the best. Just file them all away somewhere and hope they&#8217;ll be discovered post mortem to a much more sensible audience.</em></p>
<p>ask yourself, not what s/he can give<br />
you, what gift of the mind invisibly<br />
got gets you to the top, </p>
<p>but what you can give the mohn<br />
who give you blud clop &#8216;n git-stab</p>
<p><em>&#8230;it has seemed to me that the last year or two of Poetry has been pretty good&#8230;Wiman is consciously trying to represent a wide range of styles and schools, while trying to maintain a high standard &#8212; a tough task.</em><em></p>
<p>up shady back lanes where scangers<br />
drink, sniff and shoot from the lip<br />
vile accursed oaths to a pissing<br />
down sky. Bent over double, scumbag</p>
<p>dort bords who&#8217;ll jigger in real<br />
live evil warm and nice, backwards<br />
mirror every thought you ever had</p>
<p>and turn the feet of mother earth</p>
<p></em><em>I stopped my subscription to Poetry when I could no longer stomach their self-styled image as a barometer of contemporary poetry, when in fact their attitude is parochial, elitist and narrow-minded in the extreme&#8230;with some exceptions, has a sameness that makes you feel it might have been written by a few of the same people (which a lot of it is)&#8230;much if not most&#8230;utter incomprehensible gibberish&#8230;puts people off poetry because&#8230;makes them feel dumb..perplexed..bored..brought down the wrath of the Universe&#8230;I consider myself an open-minded, intelligent person&#8230;I have tried, really tried, but fail to understand the prestigious reputation Poetry continues to enjoy.</em></p>
<p>Revolutionary as a Bosch CBS 520<br />
Interrogating oranges in Cuba<br />
at full torque &#8211; ask yourself, what&#8217;s</p>
<p>surreal as a lemon in outer space,<br />
ducks quack in a vacuum and Welsh<br />
tragedy played straight on the face<br />
of a red dwarf in the Virgo<br />
Supercluster &#8211; buster.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;My first marriage took place in the Rothko chapel<br />
&#8230;we don&#8217;t like what&#8217;s playing on one channel</p>
<p>exactly explain what it is that&#8217;s &#8216;new&#8217; or &#8216;conceptual&#8217; Whitman: did the list a hundred and fifty years ago<br />
invoke the imitative fallacy</p>
<p>&#8230;contemporary mall directory poems fail because they&#8217;re too &#8220;mallish&#8221;, not because there&#8217;s something inherently un-poetic about malls</p>
<p>..Ruth Lilly, what hath thou wrought?</p>
<p>a formalist poet, give me hope for our art,<br />
for the rest of its oy vey.</p>
<p>didn&#8217;t say that &#8220;everything&#8221; was bad</p>
<p>fans, and neo-beatniks getting all the way<br />
through any given issue </p>
<p>too divided into schools<br />
Sudoku? Armantrout put it in its place<br />
last month&#8217;s issue</p>
<p>often seems like a lot of wank<br />
writing a play about dull lives<br />
Trying to put things back</p>
<p>serves up Videlock, Stallings, Goldbarth,<br />
et al elsewhere<br />
Apples, schnapples, want that analogy</p>
<p>the slush pile, I&#8217;m putting a dollar on<br />
Mallarmé, Apollinaire, newspapers </p>
<p>and billboard posters, Alien vs. Predator<br />
reading the product&#8217;s &#8220;blurb&#8221;<br />
the context and commentary for Duchamp&#8217;s urinal </p>
<p>Guy Debord and Jean-Luc Godard, détournement<br />
the best example, Ducasse&#8217;s Poésies of course<br />
is what pop art is all about also</p>
<p>bored with a narcissistic wank job,<br />
designing a tire-girded goat, or a flower</p>
<p>With a hey, and a ho, and a hey-nonny-no,<br />
&#8216;real poetry&#8217; </p>
<p>fusing the avant-garde impulse<br />
explaining a shattered yo-yo, shit in boxes<br />
Bananas not apples, and yet a wrecking bar</p>
<p>smashes your yo-yo,<br />
come to you in sheep&#8217;s clothing, the great poet<br />
11 per year and most only relating<br />
a kind of corrosive, cute, or cloying awfulness</p>
<p>intentionally bad, frivolous, or wacky, formed<br />
by a collage of quasi-random stand-up comedienne&#8221;</em></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher Woodman</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15441</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15441</guid>
		<description>Britney Swords, Desmond Spears</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Britney Swords, Desmond Spears</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher Woodman</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15440</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15440</guid>
		<description>typo: Ebon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>typo: Ebon</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher Woodman</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15439</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15439</guid>
		<description>Ebony Summers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ebony Summers</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Oliver Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/07/flarf-and-conceptual-writing-in-poetry-magazine/#comment-15432</link>
		<dc:creator>John Oliver Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=4018#comment-15432</guid>
		<description>Yvor Winters, for all that he seems to have written poetry with a ramrod permanently implanted in his posterior, taught Thom Gunn, Philip Levine, N. Scott Momaday and Robert Pinsky, which ain&#039;t a bad drumroll. I think he tried hard to be a baleful influence on American poetry but the seitgeist was flowing in another direction, toward the Allen anthology.

And what exactly does Winters have to do with flarf?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yvor Winters, for all that he seems to have written poetry with a ramrod permanently implanted in his posterior, taught Thom Gunn, Philip Levine, N. Scott Momaday and Robert Pinsky, which ain&#8217;t a bad drumroll. I think he tried hard to be a baleful influence on American poetry but the seitgeist was flowing in another direction, toward the Allen anthology.</p>
<p>And what exactly does Winters have to do with flarf?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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