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	<title>Comments on: And how should I begin?</title>
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		<title>By: John Oliver Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25810</link>
		<dc:creator>John Oliver Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lots of desert tribes come out of nowhere into the metropolis, take over with purist energy, and then more or less soak in assimilated synergy. The Manchus in China, out of the Gobi. The Aztecs in Mexico, out of Atzlán.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of desert tribes come out of nowhere into the metropolis, take over with purist energy, and then more or less soak in assimilated synergy. The Manchus in China, out of the Gobi. The Aztecs in Mexico, out of Atzlán.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25810"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25810 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Terreson</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25809</link>
		<dc:creator>Terreson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good stuff, Abigail Deutsch.  I do love it when a pandora type comes along and reopens the treasure chest.

But, and except for the cultural ramifications, I wouldn&#039;t take too seriously the word meanings of the Old Testament.  The Hebrews were late arrivals in the Levant, no earlier than 1100 BCE.  My goodness.  Sumeria was already forgotten to memory.  Egypt was entering into its Middle Kingdom I think.  The high civilization of the Minoans had already been swallowed up by both man made and natural disasters.  And the conquest of Troy by the Myceneans was about to be a done deal.

We all know how Europeans landing in the Americas called the two continents virgin territory.  I hope we all know the Americas had for a good two thousand years supported thriving civilizations prior to the arrival.  The case is parallel.

When the Hebrews entered the Levant, coming out of the desert, they met with highly organized societies tending to the matrifocal.  In order to establish themselves they had to call foul on all their neighbor-competitors, which they certainly did.  And so the Goddess becomes a God, the notion of which has been a bugger boo ever since.  Blake said it best when he called God a demi-urge and the Noboddaddy.

You say this: &quot;That original chaos, he suggests, is most generative.&quot;

Here is the thing.  To the ancient Egyptians, to Sumeria, even to the early Greeks, Chaos was known as generative and she was called Mother to all the Gods.

One other thing.  &quot;In the beginning was the word&quot; is a Greek translation of the ancient Hebrew.  Word in Greek is logos.  In Greek it means truth.  I think Jung rightly pointed out that the greatness of Greek Civ. depended upon the two essentials it understood, the play, the dynamic, between Logos and Eros.

By itself the word is never enough.  Neither is truth in my opinion

Tere</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff, Abigail Deutsch.  I do love it when a pandora type comes along and reopens the treasure chest.</p>
<p>But, and except for the cultural ramifications, I wouldn&#8217;t take too seriously the word meanings of the Old Testament.  The Hebrews were late arrivals in the Levant, no earlier than 1100 BCE.  My goodness.  Sumeria was already forgotten to memory.  Egypt was entering into its Middle Kingdom I think.  The high civilization of the Minoans had already been swallowed up by both man made and natural disasters.  And the conquest of Troy by the Myceneans was about to be a done deal.</p>
<p>We all know how Europeans landing in the Americas called the two continents virgin territory.  I hope we all know the Americas had for a good two thousand years supported thriving civilizations prior to the arrival.  The case is parallel.</p>
<p>When the Hebrews entered the Levant, coming out of the desert, they met with highly organized societies tending to the matrifocal.  In order to establish themselves they had to call foul on all their neighbor-competitors, which they certainly did.  And so the Goddess becomes a God, the notion of which has been a bugger boo ever since.  Blake said it best when he called God a demi-urge and the Noboddaddy.</p>
<p>You say this: &#8220;That original chaos, he suggests, is most generative.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is the thing.  To the ancient Egyptians, to Sumeria, even to the early Greeks, Chaos was known as generative and she was called Mother to all the Gods.</p>
<p>One other thing.  &#8220;In the beginning was the word&#8221; is a Greek translation of the ancient Hebrew.  Word in Greek is logos.  In Greek it means truth.  I think Jung rightly pointed out that the greatness of Greek Civ. depended upon the two essentials it understood, the play, the dynamic, between Logos and Eros.</p>
<p>By itself the word is never enough.  Neither is truth in my opinion</p>
<p>Tere<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25809"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25809 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gary B. Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25808</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary B. Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=5759#comment-25808</guid>
		<description>I Am

.
I was showing off my brand new
old unabridged dictionary, huge,
nearly two hands thick.
Over fifty years old. Paid two dollars
at a garage sale up in town.
We all agreed that a ‘51 UD was worth at least
a couple of bucks, but what the hell for?
Who needs that many useless obsolete words?

I said nothing is more important than words.
They teach us and nurture and lead.
They led us to civilization, right?
And what was it that God said
about words?


.
Copyright 2008 – SOFTWOOD-Seventy-eight Poems, Gary B. Fitzgerald</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Am</p>
<p>.<br />
I was showing off my brand new<br />
old unabridged dictionary, huge,<br />
nearly two hands thick.<br />
Over fifty years old. Paid two dollars<br />
at a garage sale up in town.<br />
We all agreed that a ‘51 UD was worth at least<br />
a couple of bucks, but what the hell for?<br />
Who needs that many useless obsolete words?</p>
<p>I said nothing is more important than words.<br />
They teach us and nurture and lead.<br />
They led us to civilization, right?<br />
And what was it that God said<br />
about words?</p>
<p>.<br />
Copyright 2008 – SOFTWOOD-Seventy-eight Poems, Gary B. Fitzgerald<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25808"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25808 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25807</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=5759#comment-25807</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re getting entertainingly close to calling a major religion a form of performance poetry. Thank you for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re getting entertainingly close to calling a major religion a form of performance poetry. Thank you for that.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25807"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25807 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Don Share</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25806</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Share</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=5759#comment-25806</guid>
		<description>You&#039;d have to ask the Levi-tes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;d have to ask the Levi-tes!<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25806"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25806 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Abigail Deutsch</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25805</link>
		<dc:creator>Abigail Deutsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Would you consider that Denim Bible a work of jean-ius?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you consider that Denim Bible a work of jean-ius?<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25805"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25805 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: David Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25804</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=5759#comment-25804</guid>
		<description>Always neat to see both Milton and the Bible read un-misrememberedly.  Gary Fitzgerald, first respondent, quotes the Hebrew words that Jesus quoted on the cross.  Thank you, Gary, for allowing history into the picture.  Being a rabbi, Jesus knew well that these words were written many centuries earlier by a Jewish poet.  But more crucially, it is the Jewish author of this gospel who knows very well that his contemporary readers will recognize the quotation as not only centuries old but as part of their standard liturgy.  The tragic tone in Jesus&#039; quotation echoes an earlier Hebrew prophet&#039;s--but the real irony is in the gospel writer&#039;s quotation of it as if Jesus remains a rabbi to the end, quoting his forebears.  In that sense, he resembles Milton, or a contemporary poet&#039;s complex use of quotation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always neat to see both Milton and the Bible read un-misrememberedly.  Gary Fitzgerald, first respondent, quotes the Hebrew words that Jesus quoted on the cross.  Thank you, Gary, for allowing history into the picture.  Being a rabbi, Jesus knew well that these words were written many centuries earlier by a Jewish poet.  But more crucially, it is the Jewish author of this gospel who knows very well that his contemporary readers will recognize the quotation as not only centuries old but as part of their standard liturgy.  The tragic tone in Jesus&#8217; quotation echoes an earlier Hebrew prophet&#8217;s&#8211;but the real irony is in the gospel writer&#8217;s quotation of it as if Jesus remains a rabbi to the end, quoting his forebears.  In that sense, he resembles Milton, or a contemporary poet&#8217;s complex use of quotation.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25804"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25804 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Teri G.</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25803</link>
		<dc:creator>Teri G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=5759#comment-25803</guid>
		<description>Or you could just &lt;a href=&quot;http://assme.org/2009/10/14/the-raw-story-wants-to-be-sure-you-still-fear-them-crackers-book-burning-alive-well-in-north-carolina/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;burn them all&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or you could just <a href="http://assme.org/2009/10/14/the-raw-story-wants-to-be-sure-you-still-fear-them-crackers-book-burning-alive-well-in-north-carolina/" rel="nofollow">burn them all</a>.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25803"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25803 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Don Share</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25802</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Share</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/?p=5759#comment-25802</guid>
		<description>Blake famously foundered on sweet cake, but if we join image to word, we can also talk, along with Mr. Crumb&#039;s, about such works as &lt;a href=&quot;http://whateves.com/2009/02/03/basil-wolverton-the-graphic-bible/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Basil Wolverton&#039;s graphic Bible&lt;/a&gt;... and maybe even the Manga Bible.

The other day I stumbled upon a strangely designed tome, the Jewish Publication Society&#039;s &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0827608780&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Denim Bible&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.

Then there are editions of Bibles famous for their mangling of the text, e.g., the &quot;Wife-hater Bible&quot; of 1810 in which Luke 14:26 says &quot;If any man come to me, and hates not his father... and his own wife also&quot;, instead of &quot;his own life.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake famously foundered on sweet cake, but if we join image to word, we can also talk, along with Mr. Crumb&#8217;s, about such works as <a href="http://whateves.com/2009/02/03/basil-wolverton-the-graphic-bible/" rel="nofollow">Basil Wolverton&#8217;s graphic Bible</a>&#8230; and maybe even the Manga Bible.</p>
<p>The other day I stumbled upon a strangely designed tome, the Jewish Publication Society&#8217;s <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0827608780" rel="nofollow">Denim Bible</a></i>.</p>
<p>Then there are editions of Bibles famous for their mangling of the text, e.g., the &#8220;Wife-hater Bible&#8221; of 1810 in which Luke 14:26 says &#8220;If any man come to me, and hates not his father&#8230; and his own wife also&#8221;, instead of &#8220;his own life.&#8221;<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25802"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25802 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: edward mycue</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25801</link>
		<dc:creator>edward mycue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>reading this post i think oh josephine (josephine miles) you would just love this! she wrote a book on milton&#039;s language (and the essay she wrote elsewhere on lycidas is so lively). this post would encourage and hearten her. like all my real friends i suppose jo is never dead in my mind. i hope this opens someone up to reading not only josephine miles&#039; writing on milton but also her everwonderful poems. one place to start is &quot;family&quot; a short poem you can just google. edward mycue</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reading this post i think oh josephine (josephine miles) you would just love this! she wrote a book on milton&#8217;s language (and the essay she wrote elsewhere on lycidas is so lively). this post would encourage and hearten her. like all my real friends i suppose jo is never dead in my mind. i hope this opens someone up to reading not only josephine miles&#8217; writing on milton but also her everwonderful poems. one place to start is &#8220;family&#8221; a short poem you can just google. edward mycue<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25801"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25801 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Babiak</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25800</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Babiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I love it! I had a couple of JW&#039;s at my door just the other day...I enjoyed myself. (I was very nice about it, too.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it! I had a couple of JW&#8217;s at my door just the other day&#8230;I enjoyed myself. (I was very nice about it, too.)<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25800"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25800 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gary B. Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25798</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary B. Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, you know what you get when you cross an Atheist with a Jehovah&#039;s Witness, don&#039;t you?

Someone who knocks on your door for no reason at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you know what you get when you cross an Atheist with a Jehovah&#8217;s Witness, don&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>Someone who knocks on your door for no reason at all.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25798"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25798 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Babiak</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25797</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Babiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I love the quote from conservatives insisting that it&#039;ll be a good thing to get liberals to read the Bible because it&#039;ll open their minds (their minds are obviously OPEN...yikes). I just love that they assume liberals must not have read it (otherwise, they&#039;d agree with the conservatives already, right?). Not that they might have read it and come to different conclusions. Too funny.

The only thing more amusing is to have a bible-thumper quote that moldy old book to an atheist or a skeptic as if it had some authority. When God was passing out logic these guys must have been in the wrong line. Probably the one for self-righteous certainty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the quote from conservatives insisting that it&#8217;ll be a good thing to get liberals to read the Bible because it&#8217;ll open their minds (their minds are obviously OPEN&#8230;yikes). I just love that they assume liberals must not have read it (otherwise, they&#8217;d agree with the conservatives already, right?). Not that they might have read it and come to different conclusions. Too funny.</p>
<p>The only thing more amusing is to have a bible-thumper quote that moldy old book to an atheist or a skeptic as if it had some authority. When God was passing out logic these guys must have been in the wrong line. Probably the one for self-righteous certainty.<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25797"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25797 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gary B. Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/10/and-how-should-i-begin/#comment-25794</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary B. Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>eli, eli, lama sabachthani?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eli, eli, lama sabachthani?<br /><span id="reportcomment_results_div_25794"><a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="reportComment( 25794 );" title="Report this comment" rel="nofollow">Report this comment</a></span></p>
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